Tuesday Talking Point: Online forums are wonderful of course, but...

I’m a member of an email discussion group for “UK media women” and a moderator on a forum for journalists, mainly freelancers, which came into some criticism (on this mysteriously defunct blog)  for being too positive and ‘nice’ to its subscribers.

But is this flak justified? My answer is resoundingly, "no, it's not justified, we should be nice to each other." But I do have a few niggles.

A random trawl through posts would have some more hard-bitten colleagues throwing their hands up in horror.

"Case study request: People who don't like butter," announces a thread. (Obviously it doesn't really but you get the picture)

That’s jostling for position with: “(Insert name of paper, take your pick): Section editors” where the poster is asking for them all to be listed because she doesn’t want to ring up.

Look further down the list and you’ll find: “Do you think this is a story?” and “Advice needed on where to pitch.” Hey some examples of all of these are from me, and boy does it work.

Over at the media women list, a new lady is asking about “freelance opportunities." Members pile in, without knowing anything about the questioner, sharing their wisdom and contacts. I may even have strung a few sentences together myself. This list helped me out with a case study just last week!

But really, where on earth can you start? And why should you even want to help? Would aspiring estate agents or lawyers expect established rivals to offer up their trade secrets?

In my days of being a miserable old cow on a newsdesk I know I wouldn’t have been impressed with such blatant attempts to crib off other people, expecting to be handed their contacts and advice without question.

“Find your own ****** interviewees,” I’d have shouted before seeking solace in a Silk Cut.

Even in the “supportive” environment of such a forum a request such as “Women’s magazine contacts please” is left largely ignored or can spark a swift rebuke. “Try picking up the phone” is a popular response or obviously: “Why not go and buy some.”

So are these appeals to help cut corners examples of laziness, or is there any excuse?

It’s now acceptable to ask for such guidance and more importantly, expect that it will be forthcoming. That's got to be a good thing, surely?

I reckon it’s all pretty much based on a ‘what goes around comes around principle’ – so the next time someone spots something they can help with, they’ll dive in – secure in the knowledge that their query will also get a kind hearing if they do so. But although I'm right in there, asking and answering, sometimes I can't help but wonder what we all did in the olden days.

Now, it seems, for many of us, me included, pressures on our time - through home, work and family can mean we reach out for the quickest solution. Someone, I think it was Jo once suggested that requesting a contact from other freelances on a forum was only the same as shouting out for it in a newsroom. I'm not sure that I agree. In the newsroom you'd surely have checked your own contacts and tried other avenues first?

And there’s still a danger isn’t there? How exactly do you know that the advice you receive through such a forum is any good? Who are all the other members and how useful is their advice? Sometimes I'm sorry but I laugh out loud when someone with no experience jumps in and says: "Ooh, wouldn't the (insert name of paper here - take your pick) be interested? (Failing to add of course that they haven't had anything published there or anywhere else much for that matter.)

People can mean well but do they really know what they are talking about? And what if like they are like the audience on the Russian version of Who wants to be a Millionaire? They deliberately misled some pour soul when he chose to ask them for their help, didn’t they? You do find some mischievous blighters on any forum.

Some will always play their cards close to their chest - we're all rivals, aren't we? They'd mutter if pressed.

But you’ll also find realistic advice on pitching, negotiating for more money and training, among other things. You just have to get through all the “how long should you leave it until you ring an editor?” postings until you find it.

And that’s from the up and coming freelance journalists who’ll admit to actually picking up the phone. Some appear to get by from the sole use of email and if they don’t hear anything back, then assume their pitch has been rejected.

Now is that misguided, pessimistic, just plain lazy or a wise move?

Comments

[Louise]

I had a student at City Uni email me the other day asking for my case studies' contacts from an article I'd written about strippers! He got very short shrift and told to go and find some of his own, as that was what being a journalist was all about. God, as if I had felt comfortable ringing strip clubs and talking to horrible men about their student employees and winkling out interviews from people who understandably didn't want to be that forthcoming....

I'm afraid I get very impatient with people who cant pick up the phone and ask who edits which section - if you can't even do that you're not going to make it.

[Amber]

Great post, Linda. I've always been vaguely surprised by some of the contacts requests. I always thought it was a bit of a no-no to ask for that kind of information. Mind you, I shouldn't be surprised: a few weeks ago I had an email from an aspiring freelance copywriter asking for advice about where to find clients (God knows why they come to me for advice, but they do). He said "As I'm based in the same area as you, I thought your contacts would be particuarly helpful". Er, yes, I'm sure they would, but they're mine. MINE! Mwaa-ha-ha!

I don't mind giving people advice if I can, but I do mind when I spend a lot of time typing out a detailed reply to someone and they don't even bother to say "thanks" - as happened in the example above. Seems to be getting more and more common, too

[Kelly]

oooh you are a minx. of course, i have you to thank for making me get off my scaredy cat backside and using the phone as a sales tool rather than hiding behind email all the time. as for people asking for contacts and case studies etc…well, I do it, (not in such a blatant manner as you cite - I hope!) but I like to think I offer contacts up too, so as long as there’s a balance, I think it’s OK, but I see where you’re coming from, especially when posters only rear their heads to ask for things. what does get my goat big time though is when you go out of your way to help someone and don’t get a word of thanks for your efforts, especially when your help has involved sending a parcel of goodies to the youngster concerned… or when certain people offer to be case studies, do the interview then ignore all further requests for photographs…blimey, you can tell I’ve been bottling that up for a while, can’t you?! As an aside, I often share contacts by PM rather than posting on site now. Bye.

[Sally]

Want to know what I find interesting - the number of young hacks I meet who don't have a contacts book. When I worked in a newsroom, every single hack had a red and black a-z book filled with contacts, notes and phone numbers. If anyone so much as glanced at your book, they died. Or at least got short shrift.

Now I suspect that many journos simply rely on the likes of ResponseSource and Journobiz to turn up their contacts, editors and interviewees alike. The job requirement for being a journo seems to be the ability to do the interview and write the story.

And ultimately, who's to say that's a bad thing? Maybe you and I are just suspicious because it's much easier than the way we did it.

However, personally, I prefer to do things 'old school' simply because I think the end product is better. If I make a proactive contact with an editor and impress her with my story pitch, I think we have a better relationship as a result. Similarly if I dig out my own case studies rather than going through a PR, I get a better story 9 times out of 10.